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    Thread: Baptism in the name of "Jesus only"?

    1. #1
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      Baptism in the name of "Jesus only"?

      Is it true that in the Acts and epistles there is only baptism in Jesus' name?

      “And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.” (1Co 6:11 ASV)

      I quote a comment by the Baptist Greek scholar A. T. Robertson from Robertson's Word Pictures:

      "But ye were washed (απελουσασθε). First aorist middle indicative, not passive, of απολουω. Either direct middle, ye washed yourselves, or indirect middle, as in #Ac 22:16, ye washed your sins away (force of απο). This was their own voluntary act in baptism which was the outward expression of the previous act of God in cleansing (ηγιασθητε, ye were sanctified or cleansed before the baptism) and justified (εδικαιωθητε, ye were put right with God before the act of baptism). "These twin conceptions of the Christian state in its beginning appear commonly in the reverse order" (Findlay). The outward expression is usually mentioned before the inward change which precedes it. In this passage the Trinity appear as in the baptismal command in #Mt 28:19."

    2. #2
      Jeff
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      It is quite apperent that the practise of Baptism was in a state of flux in the 1st century.

      Baptism co-opted Jewish cleansing rituals. While the Bible is clear about believers baptism - infant Baptism is a doctrine in search of a Scripture - it says virtually nothing about the form of the ritual. I have come to the conclusion that people generally fuss a bit too much about it.

      Having said that, Baptism is not in any way in Paul's mind in 1Co 6:11.

    3. #3
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      Jeff, do you have a Scripture in mind indicating that baptism "co-opted Jewish cleansing rituals"? You do not believe the Scriptures are clear that baptism is immersion? What in 1 Co 6:11 makes you think baptism is in no way in Paul's mind? After what Paul had been told in Acts about his own baptism, it seems quite natural to me:

      “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.” (Ac 22:16 ASV)

    4. #4
      Jeff
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      If one compares Dueteronomy and the New Testament with the Talmud, it becomes quite apperent that Baptism was derived from the cleansing rituals. God often co-opted symbols from pagans. The Egyptian priesthood practiced circumcism long before Abraham did. It was a slap in the Egyptian Priests' faces that God put common sheep herders on the same level as elite priests.

      While "baptism" is a transliteration of word for imnersion, the question is: Is the use of this word prescriptive or descriptive? Is it commanded by God or did they just happen to do it that way? Early Christian writers state that immersion is much preferred, but other forms are adequate if necessary. I agree.

      1Co 6:11 talks about sanctification and justification. There is nothing in this chapter that refers to Baptism. The only way baptism can be read into it is if you believe baptism is a part of salvation.

      Arbitrarily assuming a connection where none exists is how Harold Camping and Chuck Russel ended up where they did. "Judas went and hung himself." "Go and do thou likewise."

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
      If one compares Dueteronomy and the New Testament with the Talmud, it becomes quite apperent that Baptism was derived from the cleansing rituals. God often co-opted symbols from pagans. The Egyptian priesthood practiced circumcism long before Abraham did. It was a slap in the Egyptian Priests' faces that God put common sheep herders on the same level as elite priests.

      While "baptism" is a transliteration of word for imnersion, the question is: Is the use of this word prescriptive or descriptive? Is it commanded by God or did they just happen to do it that way? Early Christian writers state that immersion is much preferred, but other forms are adequate if necessary. I agree.

      1Co 6:11 talks about sanctification and justification. There is nothing in this chapter that refers to Baptism. The only way baptism can be read into it is if you believe baptism is a part of salvation.

      Arbitrarily assuming a connection where none exists is how Harold Camping and Chuck Russel ended up where they did. "Judas went and hung himself." "Go and do thou likewise."
      The Greek or Eastern Church has always immersed from the beginning so we Baptists were not the first to emphasize that baptism is immersion or dipping as the Greek states and early church practiced.

      Please be specific on comparing Deuteronomy and the NT and show what you base that on. As far as the Talmud goes, Jesus negates that oral tradition of the Rabbis as having any meaning to me as to New Covenant ordinances.

      On "washed" in 1 Cor. 6:11; I know some earlier Baptists, and Baptists who I value and honor their views, do not see "baptism" in this text. I agree with the Baptist Greek scholar Robertson that this is referring to Holy Spirit baptism/cleansing and the outward symbol. I believe so because the Greek here for "washed" is Strong's #628 apolouo and it is only found twice in the NT, here and in the following:

      “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away [apolouo] thy sins, calling on his name.” (Ac 22:16 ASV)

      I see that the ONLY other time apolouo is used in the NT, it means baptism. I then go to other Greek scholars and find they teach the same and I quote:

      Vincent's Word Studies:
      "According to fact the order would be justified, washed (baptism), sanctified; but as Ellicott justly remarks, 'in this epistle this order is not set forth with any studied precision, since its main purpose is corrective.'”

      Lightfoot:
      "αλλα απελουσασθε ‘but ye washed yourselves’: a reference to baptism. They were voluntary, conscious, agents: comp. #Ac 22:16 αναστας βαπτισαι και απολουσαι τας αμαρτιας σου, where St Paul is narrating the circumstances of his own conversion."

      The Theological Dictionary of the NT:
      "b. In many verses there is a clear reference to baptism. In Acts 22:16 Ananias tells Paul to be baptized and wash away his sins. In 1 Cor. 6:11 Paul reminds his readers that, being washed, they are to avoid fresh defilement..."

      I find that the ordinance or symbol is often spoken of interchangeably with the reality it represents: "And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins." Jesus was sitting there before them and yet he called the wine his blood. They are often spoken of interchangeably. By the way, my method of "comparing Scripture with Scripture" is in no way comparable with Harold Camping, and I do not know that other person.

      I hope and pray we all have a wonderful worship of our God this Lord's Day!

    6. #6
      Jeff
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      Quote Originally Posted by Berean-ASV01 View Post
      The Greek or Eastern Church has always immersed from the beginning so we Baptists were not the first to emphasize that baptism is immersion or dipping as the Greek states and early church practiced.
      Emphasis added.

      Like I said, immersion is preferred, but other forms will do. The Greeks also pour.

      Please be specific on comparing Deuteronomy and the NT and show what you base that on.
      I am referring to just about any time "wash" appears in the Books of the Law. By the time of Christ, there were over 100 pools around the Temple that were used in purification rituals. Rather than wonder if they fell into a catagory that would require washing, they did it automatically before entering the Temple just to be sure.

      http://www.blueletterbible.org/searc...y&page=1&t=KJV

      As for the NT, take your pick. Anyone familiar with Jewish washing rituals will recognize them in the verses on Baptism. Just as a pit bull owner does not need to be told that a pug is a dog even if he was previously unaware of pug's existance.

      As far as the Talmud goes, Jesus negates that oral tradition of the Rabbis as having any meaning to me as to New Covenant ordinances.
      The Talmud is a collection of writings. It has no authority for Christians on spiritual matters. However, it is dependable as a source of history. If one wishes to learn about the thoughts and practices of 1st century Jews, the Talmud is THE authority.

      I believe so because the Greek here for "washed" is Strong's #628 apolouo and it is only found twice in the NT, here and in the following:

      “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away [apolouo] thy sins, calling on his name.” (Ac 22:16 ASV)
      Ummm... you do realize that the "washing" of both verses is a distinctly separate action from the "baptizing" ... right? Or are you saying we must be baptized to be saved?

      I find that the ordinance or symbol is often spoken of interchangeably with the reality it represents: "And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins." Jesus was sitting there before them and yet he called the wine his blood. They are often spoken of interchangeably.
      What are you saying here?

      I hope and pray we all have a wonderful worship of our God this Lord's Day!
      God bless

    7. #7
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      Jeff, I quote from The Orthodox Study Bible copyright 2008 on page 1532 article on "Holy Baptism" -

      "The apostle Paul describes the promise of God in this 'mystery,' as most Orthodox call it, most succinctly when he writes, 'Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that jsut as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life' (Rom 6:4). To baptize (Gr. baptizo) literally means 'to immerse, to put into.' Historically the Orthodox Church has baptized by triple immersion, 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit' (Mt 28:19)."

      I can only go by the authoritative study Bible issued by the Orthodox Church as to their manner of baptizing and they say immersion. Of course, if someone is bed-ridden on their death bed, I imagine an Orthodox Priest or a Baptist Pastor would more than likely modify the ordinance to accomodate an individual asking for baptism in such cases.

      I still do not see how you say, "Baptism co-opted Jewish cleansing rituals." Jesus said of those vain rituals:
      “(For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands diligently, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders; and [when they come] from the marketplace, except they bathe themselves, they eat not; and many other things there are, which they have received to hold, washings of cups, and pots, and brasen vessels.) And the Pharisees and the scribes ask him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with defiled hands? And he said unto them, Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, But their heart is far from me. But in vain do they worship me, Teaching [as their] doctrines the precepts of men.” (Mr 7:3-7 ASV)

      I do not believe Jesus Christ is patterning his command in Matt. 28:19 on such vain customs he has condemned.

      “Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:” (Mt 28:19 ASV)
      I do not think what I've written would lead anyone to think I believe in some form of "baptismal regeneration". But I do think in 1 Cor. 6:11 Paul is pointing out to Christians that they are to remember that baptism by which they professed belief in Christ and symbolized the baptism of the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ, as well as their dying and being raised to a new life. They are to remember from what they were cleansed and remember they made this public by profession and baptism.

      I would not consider a church a Baptist church if they considered immersion just a "preferred" method of baptism. The Standard Manual for Baptist Churches of 1890 reads:

      "Baptists hold to a unity of the ordinance, as well as to a oneness of the faith; insisting that as there is but one Lord, and one faith, so there is but one baptism. Neither sprinkling a person with water, nor pouring water upon him can by any possibility be Christian baptism. That this position is the true one, we appeal to the New Testament, and the best extant historical and philological authorities to establish." page 81

      The New HIscox Guide for Baptist Churches, c1995, teaches the same as the 1890 Edition and on page 133 reads:
      "In Baptist churches, therefore, baptism is administered by immersion. (However, some Baptist churches have allowed for sprinkling or pouring for the exteme elderly, those for whom immersion would present a problem of health, or when an opportunity for immersion was not available.)"

      Jeff, I am going to stop in this thread here. I believe it is becoming repetitious so you take the last word on it or maybe others wish to comment.

    8. #8
      Jeff
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      To be honest, I am just trying figure out what your point is. I see the walls of text you copied and pasted about Baptist's baptism. Then you make statements from which I am only able to conclude you believe baptism is a part of salvation. Which is blasphemy to a Calvanist.

      I assure you that I am well aware of what Baptist say about the issue. I happen to disagree with their finer points. I am truly interested in what you have to say. It would be helpful if you could succinctly state what you are trying to get at here.

    9. #9
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      Jeff, let me see if I can wrap this up more clearly since I have apparently confused you and maybe others.

      If you look at the OP, my point is that contrary to the "Jesus only" people, those heretics who deny the Trinity, there is an occurrence of baptism in the name of the Trinity in 1 Cor. 6:11. Now, some Baptists, and you, do not see water Baptism in that verse. Since Paul used the same Greek word for wash in 1 Cor. 6:11 that was instructed to Paul himself in Acts 22:16 where it is clearly water Baptism, I side with the majority who see 1 Cor. 6:11 as referring to water Baptism in conjunction with the spiritual Baptism it represents as a rite or symbol.

      “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash(apolouo) away thy sins, calling on his name.” (Ac 22:16 ASV)
      “And such were some of you: but ye were washed(apolouo), but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.” (1Co 6:11 ASV)

      I may have confused you in how I relate the reality and the symbol for which it stands. If you read in plain meaning; John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Eph. 5:26, Acts 22:16 appear to teach part of salvation by baptism. I DO NOT BELIEVE WATER BAPTISM CONTRIBUTES ONE IOTA TO SALVATION. I find the most sensible solution is to see how Jesus introduced the Holy Communion, the other ordinance, to His apostles.

      “And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it; and he gave to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.” (Mt 26:26-28 ASV)

      Jesus sat before them in person, yet he gave them bread and said "this is my body". I am not going to be irrational and do as Roman Catholics and say that the bread became the body of Christ. I am using my God-given common sense and the 5 senses that the apostles had to recognize Jesus meant this bread symbolizes my body.. and then goes on to say the same with the cup... drink the wine for it is my blood. Again, only a flake would think the wine turned into Christ's body when Christ is sitting there in front of them and continues to sit in front of them. My point is, when Jesus speaks of the bread and the wine as being his body and blood, he is interchanging the symbol with the reality.

      Recognizing the commas are put into verses by translators and were not in the Greek, still; in Acts 22:16 it clearly states "and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name"... The water Baptism did not wash away the sins except as it is the symbol of the reality of the work of the blood and the Holy Spirit application of salvation. That is what I mean by the symbol and the reality are sometimes spoken of as if they are the same in Scripture.

      I am not a Calvinist, nor Reformed, nor of Covenant Theology.... I am a Particular Baptist. I hate using labels, but more so, labels from men's names. I hope this clears this up for you.
      Last edited by Berean-ASV01; 07-09-2013 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Correct Acts 2:28 to Acts 2:38

    10. #10
      Jeff
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      Are you saying that your whole point is that we are to Baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?

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